Re: Signinig up, versions, passing UMOs [was: Passing UMOs]

[sergey@total-knowledge.com]

Ok, clear. I misunderstood requirement 2 in thsi message:
http://www.total-knowledge.com/progs/uu/archive/msg00516.html

> Still some confusion coming from apparent mix ups between types of
> UMO use and availability.
>
> Each UMO has multiple versions. When Author of referrer UMO decides
> to link to an UMO, he decides which version to link to. When student is
> studying referrer UMO, he will have to study that exact version. Passing
> that version will happen only once, regardless of how many courses link
> to it, but if another course links to another version of UMO, student will
> have to pass that version as well.
>
>
>
>
> sergey@total-knowledge.com wrote:
>>> 2007/1/8, sergey@total-knowledge.com <sergey@total-knowledge.com>:
>>>
>>>>> BTW, there is an interesting thing about passing not the latest
>>>>>
>>>> version
>>>> of
>>>>
>>>>> the UMO. If the version of UMO is passed and it isn't the latest
>>>>>
>>>> version
>>>> -
>>>>
>>>>> then UMO isn't passed
>>>>>
>>>> If any version of UMO U in Course A is passed, then _it_ _is_ _passed_
>>>> even if there are other versions of this UMO that may or may not
>>>> belong
>>>> to
>>>> Course A.
>>>>
>>> So,  it should also be true that if student passed any version of the
>>> UMO
>>> within course A, and this UMO is also included into course B, then that
>>> UMO
>>> is considered as already passed regardless of the latest version.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Yes, if Student passed problem P's version P-3 in Course A, it's
>> considered as already passed in Course B for this Student regardless of
>> any other version of P in Course B.
>> If that's what you asked.
>>
>>
>>>> since course requires the latest version.
>>>>
>>>> Any course _displays_ the latest versions of their UMOs by
>>>> default(newer
>>>> than "latest" versions may belong to other courses or be available in
>>>> Repository). Older than "latest" versions available for Students in
>>>> each
>>>> Course.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> That made my day :)
>>>>>
>>>> I think you are talking about passing a Course with bunch of UMOs that
>>>> belong to it. Let's say Student Bill successfully passed all UMOs in
>>>> Course A except problem P. Let's say P has 5 versions.
>>>> Course A has versions
>>>> P-1, P-2 and P-3(shown as default one)
>>>> There is another Course B that has versions
>>>> P-3, P-4 and P-5(shown as default one)
>>>>
>>>> In order to pass Course A and be eligible for voting on Course A,
>>>> student
>>>> Bill must pass P-1, P-2 and P-3 only. No need to pass P-4 and P-5
>>>> unless
>>>> Bill wants to vote on Course B.
>>>>
>>> Strictly IMHO:
>>> Problem versions are independent of the course. Also, if the problem
>>> has N
>>> versions, only one of them should be available at the moment.
>>> Therefore, student should only study a problem once..
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I don't see anything wrong with availability of all "older than current"
>> versions for Student. Most likely an average student _will_ study a
>> problem once without looking at any older versions of it.
>> That's why I disagree with the concept of passing all _available_ for
>> the
>> particular student versions of UMO in order to vote on "parent UMO" this
>> UMO belongs to. Imho, passing one version of Problem P should be enough
>> to
>> vote on Course, Topic, Test, etc that contain this Problem P.
>>
>>
>>>>> 2007/1/7, Alexey Parshin <alexeyp@gmail.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> This approach means, that if several courses include each different
>>>>>> versions of the same UMO, then to pass these courses one should
>>>>>> study
>>>>>> all
>>>>>> the versions of the UMOs mentioned, and that is simply not fair.
>>>>>> This
>>>>>> requires enormous waste of time for no particular reason, especially
>>>>>>
>>>> if
>>>>
>>>>>> differences between versions are minor. It would make more sense if
>>>>>>
>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>>> UMO
>>>>>> is considered as passed regardless of version. If the version
>>>>>> changes
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> serious - then we should create another UMO.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2007/1/6, Ilya A. Volynets-Evenbakh <ilya@total-knowledge.com>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's not a downside.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> sergey@total-knowledge.com wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There is one downside I see at this point.
>>>>>>>> UU is going to have bunch of UMOs in the Repository that do not
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> belong
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> any course. Imagine a situation when student finds a topic, a
>>>>>>>>
>>>> test
>>>>
>>>>>> or
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> problem in Repository, but will not be able to study it because
>>>>>>>>
>>>> he
>>>>
>>>>>>> cannot
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> sign up for it directly.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Little clarification:
>>>>>>>>> Student can only _directly_ sign up for a course. All other UMOs
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> are
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> signed up for indirectly.
>>>>>>>>> Which just made me realize how things should be:
>>>>>>>>> 1. Student can sign up to different versions of a course
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> (provided
>>>>
>>>>>> he
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> has rights for that - more on this later)
>>>>>>>>> 2. At the time student signs up for a course, he automatically
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> signs
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> up for all all objects of that course, to versions that are
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> specified
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> the course at that time. IOW, a snapshot of a course is taken.
>>>>>>>>> 3. While student is studying, he will not see _any_ changes to
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> course. IOW, retrieving version of an object to study will be
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> based
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> on information in sign-up tables.
>>>>>>>>> 4. If there is an UMO of exact same version that student already
>>>>>>>>> studied, he will not be able to "study" it again - his results
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> from
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> previous
>>>>>>>>> passage of this UMO will carry over. Otherwise he will have to
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> pass
>>>>
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> again.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Now, what we need is to adjust database schema to allow all of
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> this
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (I think some info on signing-up is missing right now, but I'll
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> let
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Alexey look into it himself).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> sergey@total-knowledge.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Alexey Parshin wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> If an author is really interested to see the difference -
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> then
>>>>
>>>>>> he
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> simply see the difference between old rating (before new
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> version)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> after. For instance, the rating was 4.5 and became 4.7 with
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> version..
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> True.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> After all, people who passed that UMO can't vote for another
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> version
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> because it requires 'em to pass that version again. BTW, this
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> also
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> means that students can only pass the UMO once regardless of
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> version..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Did you notice circular dependency in these two sentences?
>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure whether we want to allow same student to pass
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> different
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> versions of same UMO or not.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Imho if Student wants to study new version of UMO, he will have
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> to
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> sign-up
>>>>>>>>>> for it again. And I think he should be able to submit a vote on
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> new
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> version too.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Ilya A. Volynets-Evenbakh
>>>>>>>>>>> Total Knowledge. CTO
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.total-knowledge.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Ilya A. Volynets-Evenbakh
>>>>>>>>> Total Knowledge. CTO
>>>>>>>>> http://www.total-knowledge.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Ilya A. Volynets-Evenbakh
>>>>>>> Total Knowledge. CTO
>>>>>>> http://www.total-knowledge.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Alexey Parshin,
>>>>>> http://www.sptk.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Alexey Parshin,
>>>>> http://www.sptk.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Alexey Parshin,
>>> http://www.sptk.net
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Ilya A. Volynets-Evenbakh
> Total Knowledge. CTO
> http://www.total-knowledge.com
>
>