Re: Signinig up, versions, passing UMOs [was: Passing UMOs]

["Ilya A. Volynets-Evenbakh" <ilya@total-knowledge.com>]

Still some confusion coming from apparent mix ups between types of
UMO use and availability.

Each UMO has multiple versions. When Author of referrer UMO decides
to link to an UMO, he decides which version to link to. When student is
studying referrer UMO, he will have to study that exact version. Passing
that version will happen only once, regardless of how many courses link
to it, but if another course links to another version of UMO, student will
have to pass that version as well.




sergey@total-knowledge.com wrote:
>> 2007/1/8, sergey@total-knowledge.com <sergey@total-knowledge.com>:
>>     
>>>> BTW, there is an interesting thing about passing not the latest
>>>>         
>>> version
>>> of
>>>       
>>>> the UMO. If the version of UMO is passed and it isn't the latest
>>>>         
>>> version
>>> -
>>>       
>>>> then UMO isn't passed
>>>>         
>>> If any version of UMO U in Course A is passed, then _it_ _is_ _passed_
>>> even if there are other versions of this UMO that may or may not belong
>>> to
>>> Course A.
>>>       
>> So,  it should also be true that if student passed any version of the UMO
>> within course A, and this UMO is also included into course B, then that
>> UMO
>> is considered as already passed regardless of the latest version.
>>
>>     
>
> Yes, if Student passed problem P's version P-3 in Course A, it's
> considered as already passed in Course B for this Student regardless of
> any other version of P in Course B.
> If that's what you asked.
>
>   
>>> since course requires the latest version.
>>>
>>> Any course _displays_ the latest versions of their UMOs by default(newer
>>> than "latest" versions may belong to other courses or be available in
>>> Repository). Older than "latest" versions available for Students in each
>>> Course.
>>>
>>>       
>>>> That made my day :)
>>>>         
>>> I think you are talking about passing a Course with bunch of UMOs that
>>> belong to it. Let's say Student Bill successfully passed all UMOs in
>>> Course A except problem P. Let's say P has 5 versions.
>>> Course A has versions
>>> P-1, P-2 and P-3(shown as default one)
>>> There is another Course B that has versions
>>> P-3, P-4 and P-5(shown as default one)
>>>
>>> In order to pass Course A and be eligible for voting on Course A,
>>> student
>>> Bill must pass P-1, P-2 and P-3 only. No need to pass P-4 and P-5 unless
>>> Bill wants to vote on Course B.
>>>       
>> Strictly IMHO:
>> Problem versions are independent of the course. Also, if the problem has N
>> versions, only one of them should be available at the moment.
>> Therefore, student should only study a problem once..
>>
>>     
>
> I don't see anything wrong with availability of all "older than current"
> versions for Student. Most likely an average student _will_ study a
> problem once without looking at any older versions of it.
> That's why I disagree with the concept of passing all _available_ for the
> particular student versions of UMO in order to vote on "parent UMO" this
> UMO belongs to. Imho, passing one version of Problem P should be enough to
> vote on Course, Topic, Test, etc that contain this Problem P.
>
>   
>>>> 2007/1/7, Alexey Parshin <alexeyp@gmail.com>:
>>>>         
>>>>> This approach means, that if several courses include each different
>>>>> versions of the same UMO, then to pass these courses one should study
>>>>> all
>>>>> the versions of the UMOs mentioned, and that is simply not fair. This
>>>>> requires enormous waste of time for no particular reason, especially
>>>>>           
>>> if
>>>       
>>>>> differences between versions are minor. It would make more sense if
>>>>>           
>>> the
>>>       
>>>>> UMO
>>>>> is considered as passed regardless of version. If the version changes
>>>>> are
>>>>> serious - then we should create another UMO.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2007/1/6, Ilya A. Volynets-Evenbakh <ilya@total-knowledge.com>:
>>>>>           
>>>>>> It's not a downside.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> sergey@total-knowledge.com wrote:
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>> There is one downside I see at this point.
>>>>>>> UU is going to have bunch of UMOs in the Repository that do not
>>>>>>>               
>>>>> belong
>>>>>           
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>> any course. Imagine a situation when student finds a topic, a
>>>>>>>               
>>> test
>>>       
>>>>> or
>>>>>           
>>>>>> a
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>> problem in Repository, but will not be able to study it because
>>>>>>>               
>>> he
>>>       
>>>>>> cannot
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>> sign up for it directly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>> Little clarification:
>>>>>>>> Student can only _directly_ sign up for a course. All other UMOs
>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>> are
>>>>>           
>>>>>>>> signed up for indirectly.
>>>>>>>> Which just made me realize how things should be:
>>>>>>>> 1. Student can sign up to different versions of a course
>>>>>>>>                 
>>> (provided
>>>       
>>>>> he
>>>>>           
>>>>>>>> has rights for that - more on this later)
>>>>>>>> 2. At the time student signs up for a course, he automatically
>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>> signs
>>>>>           
>>>>>>>> up for all all objects of that course, to versions that are
>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>> specified
>>>>>           
>>>>>> in
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>> the course at that time. IOW, a snapshot of a course is taken.
>>>>>>>> 3. While student is studying, he will not see _any_ changes to
>>>>>>>>                 
>>> the
>>>       
>>>>>>>> course. IOW, retrieving version of an object to study will be
>>>>>>>>                 
>>> based
>>>       
>>>>>>>> on information in sign-up tables.
>>>>>>>> 4. If there is an UMO of exact same version that student already
>>>>>>>> studied, he will not be able to "study" it again - his results
>>>>>>>>                 
>>> from
>>>       
>>>>>>>> previous
>>>>>>>> passage of this UMO will carry over. Otherwise he will have to
>>>>>>>>                 
>>> pass
>>>       
>>>>>> it
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>> again.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Now, what we need is to adjust database schema to allow all of
>>>>>>>>                 
>>> this
>>>       
>>>>>>>> (I think some info on signing-up is missing right now, but I'll
>>>>>>>>                 
>>> let
>>>       
>>>>>>>> Alexey look into it himself).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> sergey@total-knowledge.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>> Alexey Parshin wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>> If an author is really interested to see the difference -
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>> then
>>>       
>>>>> he
>>>>>           
>>>>>> can
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>>> simply see the difference between old rating (before new
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>> version)
>>>>>           
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>>> after. For instance, the rating was 4.5 and became 4.7 with
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>> the
>>>       
>>>>>> new
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>>> version..
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>> True.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>> After all, people who passed that UMO can't vote for another
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>> version
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>>> because it requires 'em to pass that version again. BTW, this
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>> also
>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>> means that students can only pass the UMO once regardless of
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>> version..
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>> Did you notice circular dependency in these two sentences?
>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure whether we want to allow same student to pass
>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>> different
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>> versions of same UMO or not.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>> Imho if Student wants to study new version of UMO, he will have
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>> to
>>>       
>>>>>>>>> sign-up
>>>>>>>>> for it again. And I think he should be able to submit a vote on
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>> new
>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>> version too.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Ilya A. Volynets-Evenbakh
>>>>>>>>>> Total Knowledge. CTO
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.total-knowledge.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Ilya A. Volynets-Evenbakh
>>>>>>>> Total Knowledge. CTO
>>>>>>>> http://www.total-knowledge.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Ilya A. Volynets-Evenbakh
>>>>>> Total Knowledge. CTO
>>>>>> http://www.total-knowledge.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             
>>>>> --
>>>>> Alexey Parshin,
>>>>> http://www.sptk.net
>>>>>           
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Alexey Parshin,
>>>> http://www.sptk.net
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>
>>>       
>> --
>> Alexey Parshin,
>> http://www.sptk.net
>>
>>     
>
>
>   

-- 
Ilya A. Volynets-Evenbakh
Total Knowledge. CTO
http://www.total-knowledge.com