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Re: Object usage payments
Yes, donations for objects are OK. We just can't limit Study access
to anything but course based on payments.
Alexey Parshin wrote:
> Well, then any object for donation or payment should have an account.
> If any UMO object that can be studied can also accept the donation, or
> get paid for, then my latest schema changes (about a week ago) apply.
>
> 2007/7/2, Anatoly Volynets <av@total-knowledge.com
> <mailto:av@total-knowledge.com>>:
>
> If those mechanisms I described called your way, then let it be, I
> confirm. However, what we need to provide (as described) in terms
> of UMO
> usage control and payment, is to be provided.
>
> Alexey Parshin wrote:
> > From what is said I can conclude that we aint going to help authors
> > get paid
> > anyhow. Please, confirm.
> >
> > What's the next big think we are still missing in the database?
> >
> > 2007/7/2, Anatoly Volynets < av@total-knowledge.com
> <mailto:av@total-knowledge.com>>:
> >>
> >> Alexey Parshin wrote:
> >> > So, how are you going to stimulate authors to develop UMOs?
> >> > Especially, on
> >> > commercial server?
> >>
> >> We are not. Once and forever: we presume that authors create
> because
> >> they want to, period. This is out of discussion (sorry, if this
> sounds
> >> too harsh; you may put it this way: whenever anyone raises the
> problem
> >> how to stimulate authors, my answer will always be the same and
> this
> >> answer represents our policies at uu).
> >>
> >> Please, remember what our policies are (and thus are to be
> implemented):
> >>
> >> 1. For the Open server (taking Open source as model) payment
> for an UMO
> >> may be asked for, but NOT enforced, while all UMOs are in free
> usage by
> >> all. AFTER the UMO was published its author can enforce a stamp
> only:
> >> have he got paid or not, according his request. So, author's
> request can
> >> sound only like: "I would like...", but this may not go too far, I
> >> think, this can be only about direct usage only. However, if an
> UMO was
> >> ordered, its author must have a tool to negotiate payment from the
> >> customer and get the payment.
> >>
> >> 2. For the Closed (closed-closed-closed... NOT commercial, damn
> it!)
> >> server, author must have tool to control usage of his UMOs and
> thus he
> >> will have tool to get payment de facto.
> >>
> >> > What's the point to write the text, or develop are
> >> > complicated multi-level UMO, if you aren't get paid?
> Donations may
> >> > work for
> >> > certain category of people/UMO and for certain conditions.
> But if you
> >> > want
> >> > to have commercial server - it doesn't work, IMHO.
> >> >
> >> > Also, UMO price offers ways to regulate any funds paid for
> the class.
> >> > W/o a
> >> > UMO price, we can't distinguish the amount of work put by
> different
> >> > authors..
> >> >
> >> > We can, of course, define a new entity, 'Agreement', and
> define the
> >> > percentage of every author for the course.
> >> >
> >> > 2007/6/29, Ilya A. Volynets-Evenbakh <
> ilya@total-knowledge.com <mailto:ilya@total-knowledge.com>>:
> >> >>
> >> >> Alexey Parshin wrote:
> >> >> > Ok, the question is, then:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > If any UMO is included into any other freely, how do the
> authors of
> >> >> > the UMO get paid?
> >> >> They don't.
> >> >> > In my understanding, every UMO has a price of usage (one
> way or
> >> >> > another, including price = 0).
> >> >> This is where you are off. UMOs don't have price. We can
> associate
> >> >> donations with them.
> >> >> Maybe. But that's it.
> >> >>
> >> >> > In turn, if a particular UMO of one author includes some
> UMO(s) of
> >> >> > other authors - the payment for that UMO should get to other
> >> authors
> >> >> > somehow..
> >> >> >
> >> >> > 2007/6/29, Ilya A. Volynets-Evenbakh
> <ilya@total-knowledge.com <mailto:ilya@total-knowledge.com>
> >> >> > <mailto: ilya@total-knowledge.com
> <mailto:ilya@total-knowledge.com>>>:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Alexey Parshin wrote:
> >> >> > > Gentlemen,
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > It's time to discuss - how do authors may define the
> payment
> >> >> policy
> >> >> > > for their UMOs. I came up with the following potential
> >> policies:
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > 1) Fixed payment. Once an author pays a UMO, he can
> use it in
> >> as
> >> >> > many
> >> >> > > other UMOs as he needs. I doubt that is what the
> author of
> >> this
> >> >> UMO
> >> >> > > wants.
> >> >> > > 2) Fixed payment for any including of the UMO in
> one's UMO.
> >> >> > > 3) Periodic payment: same as 1) but with lease period.
> >> >> > > 4) Periodic payment: same as 2) but with lease period.
> >> >> > > 5) ?
> >> >> > From the original proposal:
> >> >> > ---------------------------------------------
> >> >> >
> >> >> > 10. Following class creation rules are available:
> >> >> > - Fully open, accept donations: anyone can create
> class, if
> >> >> > donation
> >> >> > of minimum
> >> >> > is given to author, teacher has an option to
> show a
> >> stamp
> >> >> > on his
> >> >> > course. Not
> >> >> > giving a donation will show up on course as well.
> >> >> > - Fully open, don't care about money: anyone can
> create
> >> class,
> >> >> no
> >> >> > donation absence
> >> >> > marker will be shown.
> >> >> > - Payment required, perpetual: Fixed payment is
> made, and
> >> >> class
> >> >> > exists indefinitely
> >> >> > - Payment required, periodic: Flat rate payments for
> >> defined
> >> >> > period
> >> >> > of time.
> >> >> > - Payment required, percentage: Percentage of
> teacher's
> >> income
> >> >> > from
> >> >> > this class
> >> >> >
> >> >> > ---------------------------------------------
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > These policies, of course, should be implemented as
> stored
> >> >> > procs, so
> >> >> > > we can always define more. But I need to estimate at
> least
> >> the
> >> >> > general
> >> >> > > requirements for them.
> >> >> > One important thing is: we do not bind payment to an UMO.
> >> Any UMO
> >> >> > can be
> >> >> > included
> >> >> > into another one without limitations (except for
> limitations
> >> >> > imposed by
> >> >> > kinds - can't make
> >> >> > a topic a part of a problem). With this in mind,
> you'll realize
> >> it
> >> >> > makes
> >> >> > no sense to assign
> >> >> > payment to any UMOs besides course (which is the only
> >> >> > non-shareable UMO
> >> >> > - you can't
> >> >> > include the course itself into anything else).
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > It is more or less clear, that every non-free UMO
> should have
> >> an
> >> >> > > account. Such accounts would be created simultaneously
> >> with the
> >> >> > > payment policies. The absence of the payment policy
> indicates
> >> >> free
> >> >> > > object.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > A separate issue is a distribution schema. A payment(s)
> >> made to
> >> >> > a UMO
> >> >> > > account, eventually (or periodically) should lead to
> >> author's
> >> >> > payments.
> >> >> > > After some money paid to UMO's account, how do we
> distribute
> >> >> this
> >> >> > > money among the authors? We can, of course, just
> >> distribute the
> >> >> > money
> >> >> > > among the author(s) of top-level object. But, is it
> the only
> >> >> schema?
> >> >> > The issue is not distributing money between authors of
> UMOs
> >> (for
> >> >> > reasons
> >> >> > stated above), but between authors of a course.
> >> >> > We need to come up with a way to let authors come up with
> >> proper
> >> >> > distribution of funds between each other.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > --
> >> >> > > Alexey Parshin,
> >> >> > > http://www.sptk.net
> >> >> >
> >> >> > --
> >> >> > Ilya A. Volynets-Evenbakh
> >> >> > Total Knowledge. CTO
> >> >> > http://www.total-knowledge.com
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > --
> >> >> > Alexey Parshin,
> >> >> > http://www.sptk.net
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Ilya A. Volynets-Evenbakh
> >> >> Total Knowledge. CTO
> >> >> http://www.total-knowledge.com
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Anatoly Volynets, Co-Founder
> >> total-knowledge.com <http://total-knowledge.com>
> >> culturedialogue.org <http://culturedialogue.org>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
> --
>
> Anatoly Volynets, Co-Founder
> total-knowledge.com <http://total-knowledge.com>
> culturedialogue.org <http://culturedialogue.org>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Alexey Parshin,
> http://www.sptk.net
--
Ilya A. Volynets-Evenbakh
Total Knowledge. CTO
http://www.total-knowledge.com