Re: Object usage payments

["Alexey Parshin" <alexeyp@gmail.com>]

Well, then any object for donation or payment should have an account. If any UMO object that can be studied can also accept the donation, or get paid for, then my latest schema changes (about a week ago) apply.

2007/7/2, Anatoly Volynets <av@total-knowledge.com>:

If those mechanisms I described called your way, then let it be, I
confirm. However, what we need to provide (as described) in terms of UMO
usage control and payment, is to be provided.

Alexey Parshin wrote:
> From what is said I can conclude that we aint going to help authors
> get paid
> anyhow. Please, confirm.
>
> What's the next big think we are still missing in the database?
>
> 2007/7/2, Anatoly Volynets < av@total-knowledge.com>:
>>
>> Alexey Parshin wrote:
>> > So, how are you going to stimulate authors to develop UMOs?
>> > Especially, on
>> > commercial server?
>>
>> We are not. Once and forever: we presume that authors create because
>> they want to, period. This is out of discussion (sorry, if this sounds
>> too harsh; you may put it this way: whenever anyone raises the problem
>> how to stimulate authors, my answer will always be the same and this
>> answer represents our policies at uu).
>>
>> Please, remember what our policies are (and thus are to be implemented):
>>
>> 1. For the Open server (taking Open source as model)  payment for an UMO
>> may be asked for, but NOT enforced, while all UMOs are in free usage by
>> all. AFTER the UMO was published its author can enforce a stamp only:
>> have he got paid or not, according his request. So, author's request can
>> sound only like: "I would like...", but this may not go too far, I
>> think, this can be only about direct usage only. However, if an UMO was
>> ordered, its author must have a tool to negotiate payment from the
>> customer and get the payment.
>>
>> 2. For the Closed (closed-closed-closed... NOT commercial, damn it!)
>> server, author must have tool to control usage of his UMOs and thus he
>> will have tool to get payment de facto.
>>
>> > What's the point to write the text, or develop are
>> > complicated multi-level UMO, if you aren't get paid? Donations may
>> > work for
>> > certain category of people/UMO and for certain conditions. But if you
>> > want
>> > to have commercial server - it doesn't work, IMHO.
>> >
>> > Also, UMO price offers ways to regulate any funds paid for the class.
>> > W/o a
>> > UMO price, we can't distinguish the amount of work put by different
>> > authors..
>> >
>> > We can, of course, define a new entity, 'Agreement', and define the
>> > percentage of every author for the course.
>> >
>> > 2007/6/29, Ilya A. Volynets-Evenbakh < ilya@total-knowledge.com>:
>> >>
>> >> Alexey Parshin wrote:
>> >> > Ok, the question is, then:
>> >> >
>> >> > If any UMO is included into any other freely, how do the authors of
>> >> > the UMO get paid?
>> >> They don't.
>> >> > In my understanding, every UMO has a price of usage (one way or
>> >> > another, including price = 0).
>> >> This is where you are off. UMOs don't have price. We can associate
>> >> donations with them.
>> >> Maybe. But that's it.
>> >>
>> >> > In turn, if a particular UMO of one author includes some UMO(s) of
>> >> > other authors - the payment for that UMO should get to other
>> authors
>> >> > somehow..
>> >> >
>> >> > 2007/6/29, Ilya A. Volynets-Evenbakh <ilya@total-knowledge.com
>> >> > <mailto: ilya@total-knowledge.com>>:
>> >> >
>> >> >     Alexey Parshin wrote:
>> >> >     > Gentlemen,
>> >> >     >
>> >> >     > It's time to discuss - how do authors may define the payment
>> >> policy
>> >> >     > for their UMOs. I came up with the following potential
>> policies:
>> >> >     >
>> >> >     > 1) Fixed payment. Once an author pays a UMO, he can use it in
>> as
>> >> >     many
>> >> >     > other UMOs as he needs. I doubt that is what the author of
>> this
>> >> UMO
>> >> >     > wants.
>> >> >     > 2) Fixed payment for any including of the UMO in one's UMO.
>> >> >     > 3) Periodic payment: same as 1) but with lease period.
>> >> >     > 4) Periodic payment: same as 2) but with lease period.
>> >> >     > 5) ?
>> >> >     From the original proposal:
>> >> >     ---------------------------------------------
>> >> >
>> >> >     10. Following class creation rules are available:
>> >> >         - Fully open, accept donations: anyone can create class, if
>> >> >     donation
>> >> >     of minimum
>> >> >             is given to author, teacher has an option to show a
>> stamp
>> >> >     on his
>> >> >     course. Not
>> >> >             giving a donation will show up on course as well.
>> >> >         - Fully open, don't care about money: anyone can create
>> class,
>> >> no
>> >> >     donation absence
>> >> >              marker will be shown.
>> >> >         - Payment required, perpetual: Fixed payment is made, and
>> >> class
>> >> >     exists indefinitely
>> >> >         - Payment required, periodic: Flat rate payments for
>> defined
>> >> >     period
>> >> >     of time.
>> >> >         - Payment required, percentage: Percentage of teacher's
>> income
>> >> >     from
>> >> >     this class
>> >> >
>> >> >     ---------------------------------------------
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >     >
>> >> >     > These policies, of course, should be implemented as stored
>> >> >     procs, so
>> >> >     > we can always define more. But I need to estimate at least
>> the
>> >> >     general
>> >> >     > requirements for them.
>> >> >     One important thing is: we do not bind payment to an UMO.
>> Any UMO
>> >> >     can be
>> >> >     included
>> >> >     into another one without limitations (except for limitations
>> >> >     imposed by
>> >> >     kinds - can't make
>> >> >     a topic a part of a problem). With this in mind, you'll realize
>> it
>> >> >     makes
>> >> >     no sense to assign
>> >> >     payment to any UMOs besides course (which is the only
>> >> >     non-shareable UMO
>> >> >     - you can't
>> >> >     include the course itself into anything else).
>> >> >     >
>> >> >     > It is more or less clear, that every non-free UMO should have
>> an
>> >> >     > account. Such accounts would be created simultaneously
>> with the
>> >> >     > payment policies. The absence of the payment policy indicates
>> >> free
>> >> >     > object.
>> >> >     >
>> >> >     > A separate issue is a distribution schema. A payment(s)
>> made to
>> >> >     a UMO
>> >> >     > account,  eventually (or periodically) should lead to
>> author's
>> >> >     payments.
>> >> >     > After some money paid to UMO's account, how do we distribute
>> >> this
>> >> >     > money among the authors? We can, of course, just
>> distribute the
>> >> >     money
>> >> >     > among the author(s) of top-level object. But, is it the only
>> >> schema?
>> >> >     The issue is not distributing money between authors of UMOs
>> (for
>> >> >     reasons
>> >> >     stated above), but between authors of a course.
>> >> >     We need to come up with a way to let authors come up with
>> proper
>> >> >     distribution of funds between each other.
>> >> >
>> >> >     >
>> >> >     > --
>> >> >     > Alexey Parshin,
>> >> >     > http://www.sptk.net
>> >> >
>> >> >     --
>> >> >     Ilya A. Volynets-Evenbakh
>> >> >     Total Knowledge. CTO
>> >> >     http://www.total-knowledge.com
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > Alexey Parshin,
>> >> > http://www.sptk.net
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Ilya A. Volynets-Evenbakh
>> >> Total Knowledge. CTO
>> >> http://www.total-knowledge.com
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>> --
>>
>> Anatoly Volynets, Co-Founder
>> total-knowledge.com
>> culturedialogue.org
>>
>>
>
>

--

Anatoly Volynets, Co-Founder
total-knowledge.com
culturedialogue.org

-- 
Alexey Parshin,
http://www.sptk.net