Re: Courses and classes, take two

["Alexey Parshin" <alexeyp@gmail.com>]

Without atacking or defending your idea:

a) Class is not a group. It's more complicated then group as in group_list. So, I don't see much of the contradiction here.

b) The best place for the flag (if any) is person_to_group table.

Now, attacking your idea. 
Having is_admin flag in person_to_group table doesn't make me unhappy. But, having a flag for a teacher in the same structure seems useless. We must have a group for teachers since we gotta grant 'TEACH' permission to that group. However, teachers may likely be group admins. This is much less likely for students :) And, considering that we may have a dedicated admins (that can't teach or study) - we need a separate group for them.

2007/5/22, Ilya A. Volynets-Evenbakh <ilya@total-knowledge.com>:

Regarding the "admin" flag, it's fairly generic - i.e. any kind of group
can have admins,
and the easiest way to implement it is to add members, with special flag
to mark them.
Now, making special-cases (like making class's teacher just another
member with special
flag) is not an idea I like myself, but groups linked to groups (i.e.
group that has teacher
rights over another group - class) seems needlessly complicated as well.
If you can find a
solution that avoids both problems, I'll be very very happy :)

Alexey Parshin wrote:
> Can you tell more about these 'flags' to mark people as admins? I
> really don't like it at the moment, but it's possible that I just
> don't understand your idea.
>
> 2007/5/22, Ilya A. Volynets-Evenbakh < ilya@total-knowledge.com
> <mailto: ilya@total-knowledge.com>>:
>
>     There is not class-tied-to-a-course limitation.
>     It is possible to sign-up existing group (i.e. give it "Study"
>     permissions) to a different courses.
>     At least if we do not special-case it.
>
>     Now, after thinking for a while, I'm leaning toward using special
>     flag
>     to mark group (i.e. class)
>     admins, rather then separate group. There are also "course" admins -
>     these _are_ separate
>     group, which has rights to actual Course UMO (modify rights to TLT and
>     can also define
>     rules for course sign-up).
>
>     Teachers are fun one. I don't know if we should bind them to a
>     course of
>     to a class.
>     Perhaps what should be done, is,
>     1. Actual teachers of a class are members of class group with yet
>     another flag
>     set
>     2. In order to become teacher of a class, one needs to be a member of
>     "Course teachers" group (rules for membership of that group are
>     defined
>     by course admins)
>
>     It is possible to simplify whole mess, by saying "there is a
>     teachers group
>     for a course" and anyone in that group can teach any class, but I
>     somehow
>     do not like the idea.
>
>     Now, student being class admin is also possible, and even slightly
>     simpler
>     then Alexey described. All he has to do is create course, and
>     revoke his own
>     teacher permission (teacher cannot study the course, so being student
>     and teacher
>     are mutually exclusive things).
>     He can still be admin, and add new teachers/admins/etc. to a class.
>
>
>     Alexey Parshin wrote:
>     > I just explained how your scenario could be implemented. You
>     aked - if
>     > a student wants to gather a bunch of people together and then find a
>     > teacher, can we support it? I described - how it may be done.
>     > The normal way is much simpler:
>     > 1) A teacher creates a class for a course. He automatically gets
>     > teaching (for the whole course) and group administration (for this
>     > class) privileges.
>     > 2) He allows other students to register for a class.
>     >
>     > If needed, a teacher may register other teachers for the same class.
>     >
>     > The limitations:
>     > - A class is tied to the course. I, personally, don't see much sense
>     > in that. We may have a class that studies several courses, if we
>     want.
>     >
>     >
>     > 2007/5/22, Anatoly Volynets < av@total-knowledge.com
>     <mailto:av@total-knowledge.com>
>     > <mailto:av@total-knowledge.com <mailto: av@total-knowledge.com>>>:
>     >
>     >     Alexey Parshin wrote:
>     >     > Well, in what I suggested, this situation is possible:
>     >     > 1) Student creates a class. This means he becomes an admin
>     and a
>     >     teacher.
>     >     > His right to teach is propagated on the whole course.
>     >
>     >     Looks a bit artificial. I don't like such things. If someone
>     wants
>     >     to be
>     >     a student only and happens to be an admin this situation
>     must not
>     >     force
>     >     him to take on teaching functions even formally. The reason
>     like "this
>     >     app just works this way" doesn't sound for the end user.
>     >
>     >     > 2) He registers himself as a student.
>     >     > 3) He allows other student to register, or they just register
>     >     for the new
>     >     > class.
>     >     > 4) He finds a real teacher and registers him as a teacher
>     and an
>     >     > admin. The
>     >     > new teacher gets the teach right for the course.
>     >     > 5) If necessary, real teacher can exclude the original group
>     >     creator from
>     >     > teachers and admins. At least, any admin can do it.
>     >     >
>     >     > 2007/5/22, Anatoly Volynets < av@total-knowledge.com
>     <mailto:av@total-knowledge.com>
>     >     <mailto:av@total-knowledge.com
>     <mailto:av@total-knowledge.com>>>:
>     >     >>
>     >     >> Sounds reasonable. I think a student can be an admin too,
>     but
>     >     am not
>     >     >> sure. Situation: some guy wants to study a class, wants
>     it with a
>     >     >> teacher, but there is no teacher as for now. The guy
>     finds one
>     >     and asks
>     >     >> to take over. The teacher says: gather people and I will
>     teach
>     >     you (the
>     >     >> reasons can be different, money, for example).
>     >     >>
>     >     >> Alexey Parshin wrote:
>     >     >> > Here is a fresh view of the class requirements. Please,
>     >     correct me if
>     >     >> I'm
>     >     >> > wrong.
>     >     >> >
>     >     >> > 1) Class may include few groups. The following groups come
>     >     into my
>     >     >> > overheated mind (defines the permission type):
>     >     >> >  - Students (STUDY)
>     >     >> >  - Group Administrators (GROUP ADMINISTRATION)
>     >     >> >  - Class Teachers (TEACH)
>     >     >> >
>     >     >> >  It is possible that teachers may be administrators, too.
>     >     >> >
>     >     >> > 2) When class is created, Group Administrators and
>     Class Teachers
>     >     >> include
>     >     >> > the class creator.
>     >     >> >
>     >     >> > 3) TEACH permission is propagated through the whole tree of
>     >     UMOs in
>     >     >> the
>     >     >> > course.
>     >     >>
>     >     >> --
>     >     >>
>     >     >> Anatoly Volynets, Co-Founder
>     >     >> total-knowledge.com <http://total-knowledge.com>
>     < http://total-knowledge.com>
>     >     >> culturedialogue.org <http://culturedialogue.org>
>     < http://culturedialogue.org <http://culturedialogue.org>>
>     >     >>
>     >     >>
>     >     >
>     >     >
>     >
>     >     --
>     >
>     >     Anatoly Volynets, Co-Founder
>     >     total-knowledge.com < http://total-knowledge.com>
>     <http://total-knowledge.com>
>     >     culturedialogue.org < http://culturedialogue.org>
>     <http://culturedialogue.org <http://culturedialogue.org>>
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > --
>     > Alexey Parshin,
>     > http://www.sptk.net
>
>     --
>     Ilya A. Volynets-Evenbakh
>     Total Knowledge. CTO
>     http://www.total-knowledge.com
>
>
>
>
> --
> Alexey Parshin,
> http://www.sptk.net

--
Ilya A. Volynets-Evenbakh
Total Knowledge. CTO
http://www.total-knowledge.com

-- 
Alexey Parshin,
http://www.sptk.net